“In opposition it’s the words that count. But in government, it’s what you do that counts.”

With the defence secretary John Healey reportedly having “significant concerns” over the imminent Defence Investment Plan, it’s going to take both money and “leadership” to ensure the UK is adequately armed for the future, says former defence secretary Lord John Hutton.

John Hutton was speaking to Daniel Finkelstein on The Times At One. Listen live every Monday to Thursday from 1pm.

Read the best of our journalism: https://www.thetimes.com/
Listen live to Times Radio: https://www.thetimes.com/radio/live
Subscribe to The Times and The Sunday Times YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/subscription_center?add_user=timesonlinevideo
Find us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/timesandsundaytimes/
Find us on X: https://x.com/thetimes
Find us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thetimes/